The thread has gone from 'what do Americans beleive?' to 'these are the laws that make America what it is'... so let me comment from my POV:
I reckon the western world is the western world is the western world. Maybe the more similar the secular liberal democracies are, the more noticable the local differences.
I think it dosn't matter much whether there's a written Constitutional Bill of Rights or a set of presumed rights built up over time by precedent and convention.
But given the choice, I'd *not* have a written Bill of Rights. Emphisis on rights is very useful in some ways, but problematic in that it seperates what we allow or prohibit from the consequences.
It means, for example, that an accused person may have a 'right' to be regarded as innocent unless there are two witnesses to his wrongdoing. Period.
That right that exists within the JW world leads to really bad consequences for abused children. If we have a culture of written and unviolable rights, then that's where the matter ends - the accused's rights superceed children's need for protection.
I'd prefer us to say, 'the evidence is overwhelming that Mr X abused little Billy even though there's only one witness. The consequences of denying X's right to two witnesses are much less than the cost of denying Billy and all other children protection from X's abuse. Therefore we'll punish X for abusing Billy even though there's only one witness becuase that adds up to the most benificial (least bad?) net outcome'.
That's what I think, although I know it is diametrically opposed to the prevailing view taught in American schools (although a leading advocate of that outlook is Professor Peter Singer at Princeton). The philisophical outlook is called hedonistic utilitarianism.
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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160
What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?
by sleepy injust wondering what exactly americans (u.s.a) are taught about their country in school .do you really salute a flag, do you swear allegiance to the country.
are you taught that you fought for freedom, and that america is the land of the free, etc etc?
do you actually believe what you are taught?
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Max Divergent
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How Many Here Are "Technically" Still JWs???... Who's Not??
by minimus inwhat i mean is according to the society, there are a number of persons that are "technically" "inactive" yet are viewed as jws still.
i'm sure that i'm viewed as a witness still because i am not df'd or disassociated.....what about you??
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Max Divergent
I say I determine my religious identity, not some archane set of rules of theirs.
I'm not known as a JW by anyone in my community and make no pretence of being a JW. Thus, I say I'm not a JW, even though I never did the DF/DA thing. -
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My child's abuser tickles and plays with children after meetings.
by BLISSISIGNORANCE inyep..........that's what a sister told me today on the phone.. i emailed her because she is in the pedo's congregation and knows the family of the toddler i saw the pedo with.
i needed information and i knew she would be happy to speak to me.. after the initial pleasantries and chit chat, after her telling me how the convention talks brought out that the borg needs to be realistic with it's expectations of children, after expressing joy at my family's happiness since leaving the borg...................i asked her about the brother who's child was being pushed by the pedophile.
when she told me there are 2 kids in the family, a boy and a girl (a perfect package for the pedo), she asked me 'why all the questions?
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Max Divergent
"I rang the police yesterday..." Has this guy ever been charged or convicted of a sex crime? If so (is this NSW or ACT?), the Child Protection (Offenders Registration) Act 2000 (NSW) may be useful, you'll find that at http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/ In the ACT, I don't see a specific Act.
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Well................I rang the elder.....................
by BLISSISIGNORANCE in...............except he's no longer an elder!
i knew he'ld been removed after my reinstatement (about 4 years ago) because he had expressed to dubs regret over the handling of my case, how i was treated, etc.
so the big elder (po) who wanted me silenced and set up the whole jc and witnesses, had little elder removed.
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Max Divergent
"...emailed an independant political representative who's main cause is the fight against children's sexual abuse."
I guess that's Hetty Johnson. I'd be interested to know how aware she is of the JW's organisational practices in this regard. Senators are about the most powerful people in the country and she's got a good chance of being elected. A sentance in her maiden speech would go a long, long way so it's well worth lobbying her before and after the election I'd say. -
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Reinstatement, how to go about it.
by Lehaa in.
as most her know i was df'ed 2 months ago.. i've always intended on being reonstated, not because i believe the crap, but because it just makes thinks easier all round for my kids, 2 and 6, and the family.. does anybody know how i go about this and how long it can take.. don't worry i have full intentions of letting my kids know everything about the borg.. your help would be greatly appreciated.. .
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Max Divergent
"That's me biggest problem, my family are all heavies within the borg, mostly Elders, Ms's or married to one. My grandfather is one of the BIG heavies in the Australian Bethel."
Ahh... it's not Lehaa, it's 'Princess Leia of the WT Kingdom' :-)
Yeah, you'd be back quick given your standing... but, how long for? You'd be marked for life and crucified when you deviate from the party line in the slightest.
Set the example for your family in outing yourself! Be proud! We should have an XJW float in the G&L Madi Gras!!!
I went to Ingleburn twice. The second time it gave me the creeps, I was on the way out back then. I smited them in the eye in the most painful manner to them... I declined a contribution for staying there two nights. They showed me where the contribution box was about five times just to be subtle about it. They never knew I didn't put in, but I did!!
But it was also the first time I saw the Internet - a guy had a machine down in the bowls of the place watching a promo clip from CNN, over and over again... he was about the only sane one I met there.
They had cumquats for breakfast, lunch and dinner and the ritual over prayers and talks and who eats first and all that was unsettling.
I met a few of the big boys over time. Bill Whitehead - I think he ended up there later on - he was a good guy. When I was only young he'd remember my name from year to year at the DC and ask how things were. It was almost like he was interested! I think it was his brother, another good guy, who got DF'd while he was our CO in WA.
I can't remember many of the others names... blocked out?? Mostly they gave me the creeps anyhow, and I couldn't wait to get out of their company. I rarely heard a good word about any of them from people in the know.
Yuk.
I'm so glad I'm unequivicly (sp?) out, OUT, OUT!!!
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140
Should Hand Held Cell Phones be Outlawed While Driving??
by minimus ini use a cell all the time.
some states want to outlaw the use of these phones while driving....got an opinion on that?
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Max Divergent
Now you're talking Min!! Can I set the rules? Max - LOL! 'The best government is a benevolent dictatorship. That's OK so long as I can be the dictator - otherwise give me democracy'
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140
Should Hand Held Cell Phones be Outlawed While Driving??
by minimus ini use a cell all the time.
some states want to outlaw the use of these phones while driving....got an opinion on that?
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Max Divergent
I think Minimus' position is inconsistant. One one hand he's happy for laws to be introduced to ban SUV's, but on the other derides those who'd ban the dangerous practice of talking on cell phones on the basis of personal freedoms and to limit the supposed proliferation of laws on everyday choices. Which will it be Miniums?
Max - writing with mock severity :-)
BTW, I found the accident report for the plane that crashed. The pilot let people use cell phones in flight and his own cell phone was on (accidently or not) for an unsuccessful landing. The call was terminated just after impact. 6 of the 8 on board died.
Someone above said you can use cell phones in flight - NO!!
They usually work, but are banned at all times on passenger aircraft. Portable eletronic equipment can be turned on once the aircraft has leveled out. I fly too much (my FF points will now take me around the world business class!) and can recite the safety announcments and have witnessed flight attendants on witch hunts after hearing a phone ring! -
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Curfew for young drivers downunder?
by ozziepost inan interesting 'solution' to a growing problem downunder is reported in tonight's news.
see if you agree:.
curfews for young drivers condemned.
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Max Divergent
I'd favor banning young drivers from driving recklessly between 1200-0600... oh, umm... that's right, it's already banned.... and not just for young drivers.... not just in the wee hours either...
The safety argument is hard to sustain aginst the fast food worker going home after fininishing at 1130, or the apprentice going to start work at 0600.
Good for a headline to generate awareness, but that's all. -
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Should Hand Held Cell Phones be Outlawed While Driving??
by minimus ini use a cell all the time.
some states want to outlaw the use of these phones while driving....got an opinion on that?
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Max Divergent
I thought using cell phones was already banned on baord passenger aircraft? How about I try and make a call on take off from 37B next time I fly?
I can't put my hand on the report, but there was a crash not long ago where the pilot was happily leaving a message on his wifes answering machine while in flight from his cell phone, then there's a funny noise and that was the end of the plane, pilot and 6 passgengers - they crashed for reasons unknown.
Mmm... Max - of the 'I prefer to fly Qantas' class -
140
Should Hand Held Cell Phones be Outlawed While Driving??
by minimus ini use a cell all the time.
some states want to outlaw the use of these phones while driving....got an opinion on that?
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Max Divergent
Xena - If making laws for the safe use of the roads is an infringement of personal liberties, then the knee jerk reaction would be to repeal laws against drunk driving, speeding and so on in the name of personal freedom.
That'd be silly, and would infringe others right to life and liberty from hospital beds for those injured by reckless drivers with their hands and minds caught up in phone calls (or affected by drink, or dreams of the race track, or whatever) and not the powerful machine they're controling.
This does show up a weakness in rights based thinking compared to thinking what creates the best result overall.
What harm is there in requiring that people use cell phones anytime they're operating dangerous equipment? It infringes a minor civil liberty? Gimmie a break.
Max